105 points by emsign 5 hours ago | 9 comments
walterbell 2 hours ago
"Find Nearby Automated License Plate Readers (ALPR)" (70 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487452

Adversarial computer vision and DIY OSS $250 RPi Hailo ALPR (2M views), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ

"Tire Pressure Sensor IDs: Why, Where and When (2015)" (30 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490202

rpcope1 1 hour ago
It's not just Flock anymore. Another Y Combinator startup, Blissway has been putting cameras in a lot of places in Colorado, and you can't tell me it's not going to be used for exactly the same shit.
JumpCrisscross 49 minutes ago
Would the local laws banning Flock also apply to Blissway?
lgleason 16 minutes ago
Assuming that one is in favor of the use of these cameras, the security issues seem like they are a big problem. The leaking of police officer personal data and locations was pretty egregious.

Would love to hear from one of the founders on what they are doing to address that.

JumpCrisscross 53 minutes ago
Could someone who’s been successful at getting these banned at the local level speak to how they did it?

(We’ve recently had some high-profile political fundraisers in my town. Our state’s FOIA is halfway powerful, and a few of us were considering publishing maps of the routes they and they security details took, to illustrate how these products compromise our safety. But that strikes me as more of a fun publicity stunt than anything that would force the county.)

sbuttgereit 31 minutes ago
This is the most serious effort I've seen:

https://ij.org/press-release/judge-rules-lawsuit-challenging...

Not exactly trying to get new legislation passed but working within the courts to set some boundaries.

cfraenkel 29 minutes ago
spaceguillotine 33 minutes ago
request every shot taken outside of police depts and compile a list of private plate numbers for all the cops, watch shit change hella fast
baby_souffle 2 hours ago
Ooof. When I heard "android things" I knew they had a problem. It was a google project that had little adoption and was killed only a few years after it was announced (so, better than average for google, then?).

I wonder what they estimate the "replace with newer" cost to be versus the "figure out how to deploy $modernAndroid fleet wide" costs. Bonus points if you express it as a percentage of CEO's compensation / company wide revenue.

conradev 1 hour ago
The camera companies always end up having a lot in common:

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/2123068verkadac...

JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago
…what’s the commonality?
spaceguillotine 31 minutes ago
lack of security it looks like
gnarlouse 46 minutes ago
Make Classwarfare MAD Again
woliveirajr 27 minutes ago
echelon 4 hours ago
These cameras are showing up everywhere in my state. It's creepy. I had no idea what they were, and now suddenly they're at every intersection, gas station, you name it.

I don't like that the government is tracking everyone's movements so openly. I knew they were doing this with cell phone data, but that wasn't so brazen.

diogenes_atx 3 hours ago
Here in Austin, the city council no longer allows Flock ALPR's (automated license plate readers) on city streets, but Home Depot and other businesses still use them in their parking lots, and they scan your vehicle license plate every time you enter and exit the premises. Flock sells its data to ICE and law enforcement.
wldcordeiro 3 hours ago
Plus they'll position them close to an intersection in the parking lot of a business so they can get around something like the restriction Austin put in.
JumpCrisscross 49 minutes ago
> they'll position them close to an intersection

Does Flock control where the cameras are positioned?

garrettlangley 2 hours ago
That’s inaccurate. We do not sell data.
CharlesW 2 hours ago
Correct. Flock sells cameras and platform access, but gives data from their shared, nationwide surveillance utility to ICE and law enforcement.

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachus...

https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-...

https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/surveillance-com...

y-c-o-m-b 2 hours ago
As the CEO of Flock, don't you feel you have more information to offer this community outside of the "we do not sell data" statement you've made over and over? The fact that you do not engage here in the ethical aspects of your product doesn't look good for you and only deepens suspicion that something darker is going on behind your doors.
55 minutes ago
garrettlangley 1 hour ago
Consistent because it’s the truth. We do not and have never been in the business of monetizing data.

Our customers place cameras and have total control over where and how that information is shared with law enforcement.

There is no conspiracy theory here or “dark activity” behind doors.

We are trying to help people stay safe.

Welcome feedback or new ideas to make our communities safe.

y-c-o-m-b 1 hour ago
The comment adjacent to mine links to several findings, including from the EFF, demonstrating doubt on your assertions here. Specifically the case of Texas using Flock data outside of their jurisdiction (on a national level even) to use against abortion seekers. You have no substantial comments to make on those or any of the other active discussions that have spawned on this platform over the past year? You're obviously reading them, yet you only remain "consistent" on a technicality.

What steps is Flock taking to address the privacy overreach? Do you have data sharing agreements with Palantir? If so, do they respect the same geofencing properties that your clients supposedly have full control over?

chillingeffect 15 minutes ago
>Welcome feedback or new ideas to make our communities safe.

Nuture not control.

Living wage.

Access to day care.

52 minutes ago
jacquesm 30 minutes ago
This is totally disingenuous.

You are selling tools that have zero upside and a lot of downsides and that are used for structural violation of the privacy of citizens. Don't hide behind that you're trying to help people stay safe, that is not what you are doing and if you believe that you can take credit for the upsides then you really should take responsibility for the downsides.

aerostable_slug 13 minutes ago
Zero upside? LOL, no.

I'm looking for convincing decoy ALPR cameras because I don't think my HOA will go for a real setup, and I've got concerns over the product's security. I want the appearance of surveillance if I can't get the real thing. Being on a Flock/ALPR tracking app/site would be a huge win.

There is no benefit to signaling one's virtue in this scenario. It's like having a sign in your yard that says "Proudly Gun-Free Household".

s5300 1 hour ago
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2 hours ago
notrealyme123 2 hours ago
that's an odly specific answer.
loeg 1 hour ago
Seems like a broad dismissal of the claim made upthread ("Flock sells its data to ICE and law enforcement"). Why do you think it is excessively specific?
ncr100 1 hour ago
Royal we.

This is part of the problem with Flock, IMO. Lack of adherence to or support of norms. Psychopathy actualized as a corporation.

The societal impact of disruption of trust, of personal privacy, is under-appreciated by the corporation. It's concerned with winning profit.

(Meta) It's an inspecific argument I'm lazily laying out, yes, however the problem is ridiculously obvious.

We should not have to ask to be respected, and here we are.

Democratic decline (both the systems and participation in), truth, self respect/understanding of one's own rights ... those qualities are dying at the relentless toxic, ethically under-explored capitalization of our laws and resources. (Especially USA, compare to corporate social responsibility countries, I suspect)

Tech disruption is amazing to watch, and participate in, like a fire consuming the forest. "But what about the children?"

throwaway101012 2 hours ago
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extropic-engine 4 hours ago
did you know that flock has a data sharing contract with ring cameras? amazon’s panopticon is much larger. i believe it is on by default and users have to manually opt out, but i don’t have a ring camera to verify.
garrettlangley 2 hours ago
That’s inaccurate. It’s opt-in, police request footage in a geofence, and as a Ring user, you can select to share or not. The police are only notified if you chose to share.
CharlesW 2 hours ago
Only sharing specific clips is opt-in¹, but the program and its notifications are on by default. Maybe not surprisingly, consumers aren't asked if they want to participate, and the option is buried enough that most people will never see it.

¹ I'm being generous here. Police can still obtain Ring footage via warrants or "emergency" requests that don’t involve the user choosing to share anything.

lysace 1 hour ago
So your concern here is spam of unsolicited requests from LE to consider sharing data related to some local event?
vanc_cefepime 2 hours ago
Feel free to place a disclosure that you are a cofounder of Flock.
spaceguillotine 28 minutes ago
hey, while I have you here Mr CEO, why are you comfortable allowing abusive cops the tech to stalk and harass former partners, I've met women that had ex husbands in the FBI that kept chasing them across country to continue the abuse and your camera systems help enable those acts.

I hope you lose sleep like those women do.

4 hours ago