60 points by andrejsshell 3 hours ago | 13 comments
mtlynch 49 minutes ago
> maintaining kaneo means helping people debug their setups. and honestly? it's taught me more than i expected.

> people run kaneo on setups i never imagined:

> behind corporate proxies

> ...

> in kubernetes with custom networking

It's OP's project so they're welcome to support whoever they want but I definitely would not offer free support to customers who are obviously using the product commercially, especially in large enterprises.

It's FOSS, so they can use it for free if they want, but if they need custom support or features, they're a great user to tell, "Sure, I'm happy to help you with that if you purchase a $500/yr support contract." You'd be surprised how many customers like that don't care because they have a corporate card and that amount is too little to require approvals or much process.

mickael-kerjean 4 minutes ago
This is not as simple as it sounds. Just yesterday I had a call with the Delft university of technology in Netherland, they want me to add some features on the free version of my FOSS product but they did not want to pay anything. Over the last month, I was in contact with a 800B publicly traded company for a 1.8k per year invoice, once we agreed on the general direction they kept adding expectations, first was to sign tons of paperwork with their security checklist, legal stuff which took a few days but when they start asking for things that would take potentially weeks more, I invite them to do extras on a contracting basis, since them I have never heard back and of course they never paid a dime

[1]: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash

mbirth 44 minutes ago
But the company wants a proper invoice. And not every single developer is interested in founding a Limited and getting the tax office breathing down their neck every year.

Also, look at Gitea. People got paranoid and forked the project after the original author did exactly that.

Klonoar 28 minutes ago
> But the company wants a proper invoice. And not every single developer is interested in founding a Limited and getting the tax office breathing down their neck every year.

I feel like it shouldn't be poor form to say on this site - a site that predominantly has been about building tech companies and revenue streams - to get over it and charge them.

carlosjobim 9 minutes ago
Come on, stop with this slave mentality please. You can make invoices without funding any company and without the tax office getting in your hair. It's not illegal to charge for your services and never has been. You can declare that income just fine, or skip it. The tax office won't bother you.
SequoiaHope 2 minutes ago
For anyone interested in this (and certainly for OP) I highly highly recommend the book Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal. When I was raising my profile on my open source farming robot, this book really helped me understand the types of projects one might want to foster, how to think about users, and generally gave me very helpful guidance on becoming an open source maintainer!

Take a look: https://press.stripe.com/working-in-public

neumann 54 minutes ago
This is actually nice and balanced, but the title is misleading. I feel like ALL I hear about maintaining an open source project is how hard it is and how people burn our. I almost never read a blogpost or comment declaring how rewarding it is. So, this was a nice (slightly) more balanced view.
bcrl 35 minutes ago
This is why I like building outside plant. You put the fibre up on poles or pull through ducts, splice it, bring it into the building, hook it up to the equipment, make sure it's working and.... you're done. It works until something breaks, usually for a very clear reason (power outage, drunk driver, rodent, vine, lawnmower man, fibre seeking backhoe, dump truck, direct lightning strike, thermal cycling of a marginal splice, failure to seal a gasket properly resulting in water intrusion that stresses fibres when the water turns into ice, ...), but those become quite rare if you're done your job properly.

On the other hand, software is never done. Even simple features, like headphones, regress these days. (I missed a meeting today because my phone decided to send audio notifications into the black void of the heat death of the universe because I didn't unlock my phone after plugging the headphones into the USB-C port of my iPhone -- the audio didn't come out of the speaker, nor out of the bluetooth of the car I was driving. No sound worked until after the phone was unlocked.)

At least with open source software I can fix the bugs I care about, but the fun goes away once you have to deal with other people to get things merged.

Is there a community of software Luddites I can go live with where we build simple technology that works and works well?

dylan604 18 minutes ago
You're talking about being a tradesman on a forum dedicated to software and maybe making a company out of said software? If people liked the idea of being outside in the weather, doing manual labor as you've described, there is a very large chance they would not be on this forum.
bcrl 2 minutes ago
Most of my career has been in software development. Running an ISP / carrier is more fun as there's more of a variety from day to day (as is the case for anything entrepreneurial) while still involving technical skills. There is a need for with some programming from time to time, but it is usually tied to solving a particular business need.

I'm sure there are other people out there frustrated with the software grind. My point is that change is always an option. There are interesting problems to solve in the world that exist outside of large software projects that most folks here have the required skill sets to tackle.

pavel_lishin 8 minutes ago
It's very often that people here lament the fact that they're not outside being outside, in the weather, doing manual labor. How may of us don't dream, at least once a week, of walking out into the woods, or taking up woodworking instead, or wondering how long it would take to retrain as a plumber?

I channel that into my gardening during the appropriate seasons, but now that it's November, all that woodworking equipment in the garage is lookin' mighty appealing.

kai2006 2 minutes ago
I like the article a lot. Very thoughtful.
ChrisMarshallNY 47 minutes ago
I liked the humble, “lessons learned” tone of the post.

> every feature you add is a feature you maintain forever.

This.

Keeping a framework/app/SDK “pure” is very important, in my experience.

groundzeros2015 1 hour ago
I don’t understand. It’s your project, you do what you want and nothing more.
mickael-kerjean 24 minutes ago
Yesterday I received this message from a random github user: "Seriously. No SSO at all in free version? This is poor. Very very greedy and poor" [1]

If you do not spend a lot of time explaining things at length, people will link back to how much an asshole you are.

[1]: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash/issues/661#issu...

Sleaker 18 minutes ago
LOL all that user does is open issues for free support?
nickelpro 5 minutes ago
Ya OP is shadow boxing. There is absolutely no need for any of these things.

Tons of open source exists as only source code and a license, nothing else. No docs, no issue tracker, nothing. People who need it use it, learn from it, remix it, whatever, but there need not be any engagement at all from the given repo's maintainer.

boyter 1 hour ago
People who give away things like this tend to be good people. As such when someone comes asking for help or new things they are inclined to help.

Your response is where it should go when things get rude, but you don't want to start there.

bitbasher 1 hour ago
> someone opens an issue: "how do i install this?"

Honestly, this is a GitHub thing. You wouldn't get that issue on sourcehut, bitbucket or self hosted.

GitHub is the lowest common denominator for users.

stackskipton 26 minutes ago
I mean, Docker Compose could use to be more robust. I recommend Caddy for things like this.
orthodonticjake 1 hour ago
Kinda frustratingly written by ai
RohanAdwankar 50 minutes ago
Just curious, how do you know / why do you think it's written by AI? The bullet points?
amarant 15 minutes ago
I very much doubt it. Never seen an AI consistently miss capitalising the first letter of each sentence for example. The style is efficient in a way that just screams software dev to me. AI's are needlessly verbose. This guy is bordering on needlessly concise. Rather like the style actually.

I do hate that if you publish anything online these days, someone will accuse you of having used AI to write it.

We're at the point we need to coin a law for it. With tongue firmly in cheek, we could call it Turing's Law perhaps?

"Any person who publishes any text on the internet will be mistaken for a robot"

Panzer04 28 minutes ago
Hmm, I didn't pick up anything reading it but going back it does have that vibe with the repeated bullet points and cadence.

I wouldn't be certain of it but I can definitely believe it.

plasticeagle 59 minutes ago
Particularly frustratingly because it's so unnecessary in this case. It's not even that much text, just write it yourself. It would probably take less time.
singpolyma3 53 minutes ago
No evidence of this
knowitnone3 1 hour ago
Don't help people who won't help themselves.
paxcoder 22 minutes ago
[dead]
bitbasher 1 hour ago
[flagged]
genter 1 hour ago
I agree, but you might want to practice what you preach.
Lammy 1 hour ago
it's been a thing for a long time; just pretend you're reading achewood and everyone is roast beef
soiltype 1 hour ago
> is it a gen z thing?

no