I have (and love) my little Cafelat Robot [1]. It is small, draws no electricity, and relies upon my practiced hands to push preheated water through the coffee puck. There is nothing to get between me and the experience of making great espresso. I can feel the pressure, I can hear the stream of espresso, I can effortlessly adjust the flow in response to what the extraction is telling my senses.
Instead of a button press, pulling a shot is now a tactile experience that engages the senses. When the pull is done, I am primed to enjoy the results.
Yes, before getting an expensive commercial-style machine, consider what’s on the other end of the spectrum. Full manual has its benefits, both practical and aesthetic.
Plus, the money you will save will let you buy a better grinder. And that makes all the difference.
AFAIK (but it's been a few years since I researched this) there are exactly two: the Profitec Go and the Lelit Victoria. Both are small(ish) and warm up quickly, unlike machines intended for professional use like the La Mazocco. The difference between the two is that the Profitec has the pressure adjustment on the outside while the Lelit requires you to open the machine up. However, adjusting the pressure is mostly a one-time affair, so that's not much of a problem.
Like all machines intended for home use neither will let you (easily) pull a shot and steam milk simultaneously, because they have only one reservoir and the temperature for pulling a shot is different from the temperature for steaming. You can get simple, cheap, milk frothing devices, however, which work pretty well.
(all of this is assuming you already have a good grinder and decent coffee, which is, as everyone else said, much more important).
Secondly, adjusting pressure is almost a completely unnecessary feature so I'm not sure why do you chose to point that out as a major differentiator. 9 bars is just fine. In similar category goes the PID for adjusting the temperature. While on the paper it sounds cool in reality you will not use them 99% of the time. There's many prosumer machines which don't allow you neither of those and are still perfectly fine machines.
I didn't expect these prices! Think I'll stay with my Bambino which cost me a third (and does a _much_ better coffee than my parents' horrid DeLonghi Dedica) but good to know these exist.
So I won't be replacing my Aeropress or Bialetti pot with one this month.
However, it's not the machine for me. I got it when I was deeply getting into coffee, and I'm coming from a scientific background so I wanted to do proper testing of my extractions. That's not really possible with a lever machine. Shots are inherently not reproducible, it's very difficult to get the same pressure from one shot to the next, even with the pressure gauge.
If that doesn't bother you and you're just happy to get decent espresso from a beautiful looking machine, then absolutely go for a lever machine.
But if you have scientific tendencies, if you want to properly test and compare flavors between between and brew ratios, it's not for you.
A prosumer electric machine will give you way more consistent results, although you won't be able to adjust pressure you'll still be able to adjust everything else.
And of course, if you want to steam milk then a lever machine can't do that either.
An electric machine (other than the Decent) is not any more reproducible in terms of the outcome of the shot than a manual lever, and in many ways they're less reproducible. The reason is that the actual pressure the water is under is not the important thing, the important part of coffee extraction is how that water is flowing through the puck.
Due to just random happenstance configurations that the puck can settle into, applying the same pressure every time will not result in the same extraction every time. Someone skilled with a lever and who is used to knows what it feels like when a shot flows too fast or too slow can adjust the pressure on the fly to compensate, improving consistency.
There's a lot of folklore out there that's lingered from the early 2000s espresso community where it was widely believed that temperature was the holy grail control parameter, but now with modern instrumentation and temperature probes, it's been pretty much debunked. Temperature stability throughout a shot makes almost zero perceivable difference in taste.
It takes brew temperature differences swings of around 5 degrees Celsius before people can start to notice any difference better than random chance, and almost a 10 degree brew temperature difference before it gets to the territory of 'ruining a shot'.
Meanwhile, very small differences in puck preparation, including micron-differences in grind size, or sub-gram-level differences in coffee quantity have profound differences in flow rate, which has a very strong affect on coffee extraction levels, which has immediately recognizable differences in the produced flavours that a trained palette can reliably detect. This is before we even start talking about channeling which has an enormous affect on the coffee.
Manual control of the applied pressure can and does allow skilled people to compensate for those differences in flow rate, and combined with very basic attention to brew temperature, does help shot consistency.
Agreed. I have a Pavoni Europiccola, and it's made approximately ~11,000 espresso shots (about half of those ended up as milk-based beverages). It makes excellent coffee, and I live in a place where there are a _lot_ of good coffee places around to compare to.
The maintenance is something I do myself, with a few small & inexpensive tools, and a few gaskets I need to replace. The machine will likely outlive me, which is a rare thing to say these days.
Nope. I agree about enjoyment factor but still: no. Unless you are single and don't like cappu's.
With lever machines it's going like this: you turn it on, wait few minutes, pull espresso... and it is too cold. You pull second and third and those can be good but by 4th espressos are too hot so they are bitter. So it is time to turn off your lever mini-espresso machine... And milk frothing ? n/c
Oh, and boiler size in "lever" machines :) La Pavoni Stradivari is 16... But what you do when boiler is empty ? You have solid piece of metal with temp 90-100 C, how you like to unscrewing and refiling it ? :) And then 5 minutes of warming it to 90's again...
Now cost... 1k up to 2k dollars for lever. So when "many starts" ? For 2k-3k you have more available machines then you want to choose from :>
And belive me: you _want_ a plumbed one. So we are almost in "commercial" territory, there is no way around it.
There are now new generations of "lab" espresso machines but usually they are not cheaper then plain e61. And still some Rancilio made tank is preferable - Epocas are dirt cheap, almost :)
But if someone want cheap coffee gear then Chemex or Hario v60 is perfect option. Perfect! We use it almost daily at home. Or few times a day. :) Almost same amount of ritual like with Robot :)
Full agree on grinders - better one makes difference.
So, 20 years of coffee forums reading in one sentence: espresso machines need to be heavy and they costs.
In secret I can tell: Stradi is still on my wish list :)
And then there is one thing even or maybe especially commercial shops avoid: actual good coffee. You need to pay 2x or 3x or more for 1kg of coffee beans or you just serving black slops. Some chemistry you dilute with milk. Look it is easy to one-time pay 5k for some chrome machine but every day paying for good coffee beans is beyond most coffee shops on the globe...
So while they make very good, rich, full-bodied coffee, it's just not espresso.
We got a Flair manual espresso maker after our Gaggia Classic crapped out after a year (hard water buildup, probably). I de-scaled, replaced some parts, still didn't work.
https://greatinfusions.com/blog/great-infusions-coffee-blog/...
[0] https://www.baristahustle.com/diy-water-recipes-the-world-in...
I get the appeal of manual levers to espresso enthusiasts but would strongly dissuade beginners from starting with one. When you are learning to dial in a shot what you want is consistency and reproducibility which is the opposite of what you get with a manual lever.
Also it doesn't steam milk so you need to figure out a separate solution for steaming if you want to make a flat white/cappuccino/latte/etc.
That's not to say you should dump thousands of dollars into a La Marzocco, but there are plenty of entry level machines in the $300-500 range that would suit a beginner just fine.
It is about having a good coffee, not a professional sport.
Before spending money on an espresso machine, make sure you have a good grinder first.
Why? In which country can't you buy high-quality hipster single-origin beans online?
For what it is worth, I realized that superautos could make good espresso when in Italy in 2000 and got consistently good shots from the commercial superautos used in autostrada plazas. But those machines were serious equipment. Most home superautos I've tried have had a hard time producing good shots. But it can be done.
> make sure you have a good grinder first
The mercurial success of Hot Dog on a Stick has taught us that the choices of uniform and workers are factors!
My reply is always that it was the best money I've ever spent and the worst investment I've ever made. It's a lifestyle choice, and a questionable one at that. But one I'd make again every time given the opportunity.
People will buy a $500 espresso machine. They buy $300 water filters and dough mixers and dehydrators and on and on. Yes, it is a single-tasker but Starbucks requires a salary of $255K USD to enable a $7USD/day coffee habit.
I’ll teach myself to fish every time, given the option to buy a pole.
But the user experience is remarkably simple. Turn the knob left to start the flow of water, turn the other way to stop. Move the dial to steam/froth milk. Fantastic default water pressure and even better tasting coffee. It’s a machine that will last a decade if not longer.
Goddamnit, why the fuck can't we just have a machine that fucking does everything we need it to, on its own? An espresso machine requires a fucking app? Goddamnit.
Yes, I realize nothing about this comment is constructive.
I mean, my PSP from <20 years ago doesn't support WPA2 or 3 and therefore can't talk to my home wifi unless I made a hole for it.
But as we all know, Italian-made boutique home appliances are different. They have a rich history of having timely manufacturer-supplied technology updates provided as the decades press on.
We know this to be true, just as we know that sarcasm is a myth.
I sort of understand why their consumer machines would have that crap but I imagine that plenty of commercial places buying a $20k+ machine for a cafe that's supposed to run for 40 years would not accept having an app involved in maintenance.
Go into a service shop and see what they think of the computerised La Marsocco. Great coffee, amazing looking machine. But servicing…
I got awfully close to getting one then went for an e61. I’m very sure the coffee isn’t as good. I’m very sure the machine will have parts for a long time - it’s been 60 years so far.
Part of the reason I bought new is that they are so expensive on the second hand market here - so I’m not too worried that I’ll get most of my money back if I upgrade to something else in 10-15 years.
I’m going to overhaul the old commercial machine and will probably get a bit more than what I paid for it so not complaining!
Yeah, you can get a cheaper machine, but it's not going to look as cool (this is subjective of course).
I actually hate coffee, but I go by their building every day and the machines are very impressive looking.
>>> The La Marzocco
yeah yeah, I know it's the official machine name and it's another language and whatnot, but it just translate to "The The Marzocco"
Whatever the meaning of "La" is, it is part of the name, so it will stay. Same idea for surnames that start with "de", like Charles de Gaulle.
French: C'est une citation de De Gaulle.
German: Das ist ein Zitat von Von Neumann.
Both correct, but one would probably add "Charles" or "John" between the two 'de' or 'von' just to break them up.
I agree wholeheartedly with those who say the coffee beans, the grinder and the barista are more important than the machine.
Nowadays at home I use a very simple Bialetti Brikka with exactly 200 ml of water and 20 g of coffee. God shots every single time.
To take it to an extreme, I doubt the best barista in the world is going to get a good shot out of the default Starbucks beans. But maybe I'm wrong!
Beans can't compensate for the lack of skill.
Or do you mean an Americano? Are you adding water afterwards?
It's not an espresso.
No... no water. The Brikka has a pressure valve and the 200 ml of water yield about 125-150 ml of coffee.
You might call it a double lungo, but with a bit of crema (yep) and no acidity or sour taste. Just sweet coffee with nice chocolate notes.
I use coffee beans from Papua New Guinea, roasted locally at the coffee shop.
You may try whatever amount of water you want... just don't let it burn in place!
There is a subtle balancing act between the quantity of coffee in the basket (how much headspace you keep) and the amount of water ( a ratio of 10:1 with the coffee -- before making the coffee -- yields good results for me).
So ... if you put less water, that means less coffee... which means more empty space in the basket, which modifies the dynamics.
Pro tip: use as little heat as possible to get the water to a gentle boil. Otherwise you might burn the coffee in the basket. Bad.
In short, you will have to experiment...
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/15zabe/does_the_bia...
The brikka is exceptional, if you like espresso.
I have a Brikka "Induction" with a stainless steel machined bottom part. Today I looked and apparently they decided to skimp and only offer the aluminum (non induction compatible) version. Pity.
I've been eying a hario switch to try something new. The chemex gets marks from me for design & size when I need to make a big pot for guests.
New rule should be La Marzocco judges every barista on their skills before being able to flip a paddle, which requires a bespoke NFC card linked to their certification.
Yes I’m salty about the amount of aesthetic cafes that have no idea what to do about their coffee program because all they care about is being a hip third space.
For those unfamiliar, Slayer is (imo the best) one of the top $$$ machines and pairing it with a budget grinder is a classic sign the owner doesn't know a thing about coffee. Often the grinder is more influential than the espresso machine.
And how I mention "Group 3" that means it has three brewing heads. They were using a ~$20-30k espresso machine paired with a run of the mill budget grinder.
The exception to that rule is Espresso Vivace in Seattle, with (at Capitol Hill location) a couple 3-group La Marzoccos at the bar and a collection of modded Niche Zeros on grinding duty. Nobody can accuse David Schomer[0] of "not knowing a thing about coffee".
It's kinda wild to look and see even the old models listing for double the price they used to.
The point is that investing in such a crazy expensive machine but not a much better grinder is really foolish, because the machine is going to be limited by the grinder so they may as well buy a machine that is 1/3 the price.
But really it sounds like 80% of the problem in the case tow OP is talking about still would have been the poor skills of the baristas, because they should still be able to pull very decent shots even with the mid-range grinder.
The same La Marzocco that puts fake paddles on their cheaper machines when whats there is really just a button?
From TFA:
It’s why Sean Henry, the owner of Houndstooth Coffee in Dallas and Austin, Texas, was willing to drive across the state in 2009 to pick up a limited-edition La Marzocco machine that the company made in partnership with the Dutch designer Kees van der Westen.
Still works exactly the same and it's what makes me want to get up from the bed even on Mondays.
https://coffeegeek.com/reviews/firstlooks/rancilio-silvia-pr...
100% stainless steel or bust.
And you will have enough money left over to get a great grinder.
But, the milage you’ll get on a Sylvia is higher.
But secretly, I think it’s all just the super fresh high quality beans that you can buy in Vietnam. They cultivate a regional variant of arabica in their highlands. And even using a standard Bialetti Moca cup produces exceptional results with that coffee.
Even can adjust temperature and shot water volume...
0 - https://coffeegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Gaggia-Cla...
1 - https://live.staticflickr.com/5749/20930782499_f47f18391a_b....
2 - https://preview.redd.it/i-call-your-oldies-and-raise-this-19...
