Oh, is this actually out now? If so, great, but I took a quick look and didn't spot any third party review yet. For those interested in this laptop, personally I'd still wait for some reviews from some real world people.
So, 3.5 years later, the chassis is still neat, and good on them for plugging away I guess, but for anyone that actually needs a new computer, there's no shortage of higher-end Linux-centric laptops with a better shipping track record (Framework, Tuxedo Computers, Slimbook, etc).
What an unfortunate time for these niche hardware companies to be launching new hardware. Framework, StarLabs, System76, (I wonder if Tuxedo will release something). The RAM prices must be killing them. Even if they increase prices to accommodate, I know quite a lot of folks who are simply punting any purchasing until things calm down.
I just ordered my Framework without any memory or storage, hoping that by the time it arrives, I'll be able to pick up some RAM and an SSD for a more reasonable price. If not, I'll just grab something from a drawer and use it underspecced until prices normalize.
Sensible thought. I very much hope there is a glut of one-three year old ram and GPUs on the market in about one year when the AI market "cools" and the ear-marked components return to the market.
The banks that lent the AI industry the money are already trying to sell their debt.
Unless you meant buying an entire server (instead of laptop/desktop components), it won't work out the way you are describing. Prices may come down, but the components for the datacenters market aren't fungible with the components for laptop or desktop. You might not know what is being "earmarked" in this case?
Yes, the DRAM dies all come from the same wafer supply and fab capacity, and those limits are the cause of the current prices. However, once the memory OEMs have packaged DRAM dies into something like an LRDIMM or SOCAMM, the cake is baked. It's no longer usable in a laptop or desktop. No amount of X-year-old LRDIMMs (hypothetically) flooding the market will be useful for anyone's desktop or laptop. And then there's HBM, where the dies are directly on-package with the CPU or GPU.
Second-hand, revalidated server DRAM components may contribute somewhat to a price decrease, but those won't be the components you or I will be purchasing (unless you run a true server platform as a desktop, in which case, shine on you crazy diamond!).
The same is partly true for GPUs: there are PCIe versions, but most are OAM or SXM modules. You might be able to jury-rig an SXM module into a desktop? Adapter cards exist for at least some SXM versions, and you could figure out the cooling somehow? But it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
I have some amount of confidence that the sellers on AliExpress will figure out how to create cheap hardware that makes use out of all of this when it hits the secondary market.
For standard desktop CPUs, the memory controller doesn't support the signaling required to communicate with an RDIMM. There's no clever AliExpress adapter that will magically give a component within your CPU capabilities that it simply doesn't have.
However, if you have a true workstation, you don't even need some adapter from AliExpress! Xeon 600, Threadripper 7000, Threadripper 9000 all support RDIMMs natively.
I wonder why the price difference between the 8845HS and the 285H is more than the cost of some complete 8845HS based systems. Also a shame one can't opt out of the storage or accessories like (yet another) measly 65W USB C+USB A GaN charger.
Other than those things, it actually looks decently exciting. I love the 16:10 + high resolution. Screen brightness isn't amazing, but also better than average. Glad to see 120 hz+ across all of the options. Privacy kill switch is great but the removable magnetic webcam seems a bit overkill/complicated given the kill switch (a simple physical slide would have been plenty as well). The hardware options aren't too bad for an open/Linux focused device. 6 USB ports + HDMI + audio ports is great, given the thickness it would have been cool to throw in a built in ethernet port, SD slot, and DP out to negate most of the need for the dock.
If I hadn't already bought a laptop this year this would probably be high on my list.
i would highlight two non-tech strengths of starlabs as well: they're based in Europe and from personal experience they have really good customer service
Do they actually have a business presence in the EU?
If not, how would those rules apply to them?
Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses.
Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.
They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies.
If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to.
There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.
Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.
You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction. It's a grey area, it'd have to be tested in court. I highly doubt anyone will bring a case though. That's like calling the police on your own drug dealer. (IANAL)
> which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction.
You're gonna have to point to part of the regulation where thats not allowed. there is a mechanism for deletion. so long as its done within 30 days its still within spec
I don't know it inside out but I'm following the basic standard "it should be as easy to withdraw consent as give it"
The overall point being that if you want to use a product/service, you'll look past minor violations of local regulations on account deletion or charger bundling.
They are free to charge you extra for taking the charger out of the box. So I'd grant them a bit of civil disobedience on this one and just take that nice GaN charger.
I can see the EU's take on this, and maybe overall this will even be good. I have some nice Anker chargers and can charge everything we have at home with them (added some USB-C to ligthning/micro-USB thingies here and there), but I'd be a bit annoyed if the EU would force my company operating with small margins to have 2 versions of my packaging workflow.
Maybe they should just "encourage" good behaviour? With a law that is less forcing, ie just say: "If you offer a version without charger, the price must be the same as with charger. " That would (slightly) encourage leaving it out, while not forcing companies' hands.
The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one. 65W GaN chargers are a nice sweet-spot at the moment (size/power/price-wise), ie Ikea has one at 14 eur), wouldn't mine having one or two extra.
The easiest option to implement would be to have separate SKUs for the charger and the laptop. And not three SKUs: laptop with charger, laptop without charger, separate charger.
If you ship to multiple countries you can reduce the SKUs even more as the laptop SKU isn’t country specific anymore.
Offering a version without the charger for the same price would not reduce ewaste which is the point.
Excellence. I like everything, and the open warranty is nice: "Our 1-year limited warranty allows you to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty."
I'd love to see more than 5 years of updates, but there is so much to love here, I can look past that!
They don't sell you your OS, that's the big surface area that companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc have to swallow.
They also don't make these computers and are at the whim of their ODM, so unless you opt for Coreboot/Libreboot, there wouldn't be a possibility for that.
I have been using this for about a month and I love it. The screen looks great, the keyboard is great, the trackpad is great (I have been using Lenovos for ~20 years and though I couldn't live without the trackpoint). The battery life is more than enough for my usage during my daily commute and way better than the mere 1.5 hours I could squeeze out of my old Thinkpad P1.
I genuinely don't think there is anything I would want changed on this laptop.
I have never owned an Apple product, but I have helped other people from time to time. It's hard to say because I'm not used to it, but the trackpad feels really snappy and precise, and the 120hz display also helps making it feel really smooth when scrolling
I am not sure since I have never gotten to zero. But I would think I could easily get 6-7 hours out of it, although it depends a lot on the type of work I do and whether I am in meetings. I use IntelliJ and run heavy test suites all the time, and that does drain the battery faster.
Why are "premium" laptop vendors still putting vents on the bottom of their machines? Did they never try actually putting their laptop on their laps and realise how much that design sucks?
On the other hand, full size arrow keys make this a non-starter for me. I need to position my fingers over the arrow keys without looking at them, and half-size allows me to do that by touch feeling.
For that exact same reason I've been avoiding half-sized up/down keys and full arrow keys, as well as mate screen and weight, have been my first filters when browsing for laptops. How annoying must it be to design those machines with such a variety of tastes :)
> 01. Removable Webcam With its easy-to-disconnect magnetic connector, you can simply unplug the webcam whenever you want to ensure that no one can access it.
What about the microphone though?
The camera issue has been solved years ago by a simple analog hack of physically obscuring its field of view, with some business units having a physical switch built-in.
The same is much more difficult for a microphone, hence the appeals of privacy-conscious folks about it, mostly unanswered.
Most devices still support S3 sleep, it's just disabled by default as s2idle (modern standby) has become the default. You can almost always re-enable S3 sleep if you really want to, but on modern devices it typically only takes a few seconds to resume from S4 (suspend-to-disk) which technically is safer and more reliable. Also you can always use suspend-then-hibernate if you really want fast resume during the day, but long battery life when it's more than an hour or so.
My Thinkpad p16s does not have s3 sleep. And s2idle lasts for a couple hours before it dies because every device has to sleep before it goes to true idle, but can never get all the USB devices to sleep. It's crap. S3 worked fine and was robust.
I really like the detachable webcam gimmick - I'm sure that, like all gimmicks, it could prove frustrating sometimes, but it's a novel way to have both a decent webcam and thin bezels without notches, nose-facing cameras, etc.
I like it both for the peace of mind that the webcam is off, but also because I anyway have a dedicated external webcam both at the office and at home, so I really don't need a webcam lens in the lid except for the rare occasions where I need to take a meeting on the go.
I can't imagine the supply chain challenges inherent to startup laptop manufacturers. I think it's "go with what you have access to at reasonable prices, or forget about it. "
I think Framework is a good example of how smaller laptop OEMs end up shipping late, often on the order of three quarters. This is something else entirely, if any of these configurations are recent arrivals (I don't think they are).
I don’t believe they actually make the hardware. I know sytem76 always just rebadges Clevo hardware. You were basically paying for Linux to be preinstalled and for the Linux focused support.
EDIT. Actually it looks like I was wrong about that. They do apparently at least make their own chassis’s unsure about the motherboard’s or screens though.
I have the Intel Core i9 in my 2019 MBP, and it gets so damn hot. How do the ones offered here compare? I'm not one to upgrade frequently, but the heat of this thing makes me go looking. Luckily, it sits on a stand on a desk with more 9s than github is up.
A 2019 MacBook Pro would have an Intel Skylake processor (N-th re-release), made on Intel's stagnant 14nm process. The older Intel option for the StarFighter has its CPU cores made on an Intel process two generations newer, and the rest of the chiplets made by TSMC. The newer Intel option moves the CPU chiplet to TSMC as well. They're in a very different league for power efficiency than your current machine, both from the fab improvements and from having a microarchitecture that's not from 2015.
Case temperature is very much at the discretion of the laptop OEM. Some OEMs take regulatory limits on skin temperature seriously and ship a well-tuned thermal control system that keeps the case at a comfortable temperature. Others push close to the legal limits to keep fan noise in check. Others ship plastic enclosures so they can get away with even higher temperatures (since plastic has lower thermal conductivity than metal, and thus a harder time cooking your thighs) at the expense of more noise.
The StarFighter has a metal case, so when running at high power levels (45W sustained according to the spec sheet) it will either get uncomfortably hot somewhere on the case or at least a bit noisy from the fans, but since it's a bit thicker than the 2019 MacBook Pro it should be able to cool itself more effectively. But when running at the performance level you're used to the power draw should be plenty low enough to make temperature and fan noise not a problem: roughly double the peak CPU performance means you can turn down the power limits a lot and still have a better-performing machine.
Every generation of CPU has high-power and low-power variants. The i9 is a high power variant that generates a lot of heat but what you want is the low power variant.
I recommend looking for a used laptop with a Core Ultra 7 165U (<$500) or a Core Ultra 7 268V (>$1000). Maybe an HP EliteBook. Either one would be faster than your old i9 and run much cooler.
I've been working from a ARM windows laptop for a year now and have gotten so used to a full day of battery, I don't even bring a charger anymore. I would love a framwork or Starfigher laptop, but I don't feel like the batterylife on intel and amd is there yet?
Same-size cursor keys (with the whole line and without any distinction) is such an ill-design decision. Nice to show in the presentation slide deck, but hard to actually use blindly.
100% agreed. it upsets me when i see companies like framework advertising themselves front and centre as Linux-first, yet won't sponsor a coreboot port. starlabs, system76 and novacustom actually walk the walk
Framework plans to eventually support coreboot, as far as I am aware. (Or open source the current one they purchased).
It just wasn't the main priority.
They focused on making a repairable laptops ecosystem first.
Switching to different firmware later isn't ruled out.
This is lovely. I'd love it if this or the Framework Pro also had OLED options, though.
My aging Thinkpad P1 (1st Gen) has a great LCD, but it's also the last non-OLED screen in my life, and I don't think I can buy another laptop without it. In fact it would be a purchase decision driver/upgrade incentive for me. This and longer battery life.
Even though I build lots of C++ code, I still don't think I need more than the Xeon in the P1, horse-power wise.
I recently switched from Linux to freebsd on my work computer and things have been mostly working. With linux chroot I can use the few apps missing BSD port.
I did this because I manage a fleet of BSD based server (BSD runs zfs and bhyve with VM on it) and I wanted the same base system for me.
I wonder how BSD friendly those laptop are.
In any case I am so happy to see some open hardware solution.
One of the best investments I’ve ever made was to get an 8TB drive for my laptop. Never having to worry about disk space again is so nice. Consider it if you’re in the market for a new laptop.
Does it ever worry you that all 8TB could fail in one place? Do you have redundant drives (like two 4TB or four 2TB drives)?
I'd be worried about having all of my storage in one place. I like to back up data to more than one place if it's important, and never have huge on-device storage because if something happens to damage it, I'm assuming it's game over for all on-device storage (rather than only part of it). I'd rather my storage was safe and cozy in some place far from where my laptops go.
But if you're not all that worried and happen to do data-intensive work or something, awesome, 8TB sounds like a dream.
FWIW I have had a StarLite Mk IV for three years now and haven't run into a single issue with it (except maybe the speakers being quite poor).
Unfortunately the company stopped releasing firmware updates for it soon after they launched Mk V. I don't know if it can be still built from source for the older devices.
I happen to be looking around for a 15 or 16 inch laptop, but these look pretty unsuitable for me. Odd CPU choices, and no apparent way to configure one with 16GB ram in this time of AI-fueled cost crisis. All but the standard are way out of my budget range - especially considering none have a dGPU. Also for idiosyncratic reasons I need a numeric keypad.
If you want to use it on the beach you will probably need an e-ink display because no laptop screen can compete with the sun. But matte is still infinitely better than glossy for less than ideal conditions such as working on a train where there might be sunlight coming in from the side.
Glossy screens are, in my humble opinion, a stupid gimmick because they look a bit better at ideal viewing conditions. For mobile devices the viewing conditions are most often not ideal, so it really doesn't make any sense unless the screen has to be a touch screen. I have had one laptop with a glossy screen and I ended up putting a glare reducing sticker on it because the glare was intolerable.
Based on my experience with the System 76 Lemur Pro coming from a Macbook Pro, matte helps a bit. You won't have mirror glare like on the Macbook, but the sun will still wash out the matte screen.
Not sure who the target market is.. but on the homepage it only lists the CPU's in the era of AI/Models etc I'd put the GPU and VRAM somewhere on mainpage as well.
Even when I view "Tech Specs" still don't see the VRAM ?
Just some feedback.
Is this an improvement on how long whatever it's talking about usually gets updates for, or is putting a limit on it at all a bad sign? I've only seen this with regards to mobile phones before.
There are no guarantees your laptop will ever get a single update (let alone 5 years) unless they state as much. Most do not state any guarantee or less than 5 years.
Does it mean this machine has the potential of having amazing battery life since it can be fully programmed? I am talking as close to MacBook Pro level (not accounting for arm vs intel/amd difference).
The Framework 13 absolutely does not touch the MacBook Pro battery life in any of its current configurations, though the upcoming 13 pro promises to.
I have a Ryzen 5 AI 340 powered machine and average about 6 hours. I might be able to stretch that to 7 if I dimmed the screen a bunch and only did light web browsing.
This is closer battery life to MacBook Neo, not an Air or Pro under the same workload.
Has almost everything I want, full size cursor + dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdown but fingerprint sensor would have been nice, although linux support for those is dodgy.
Yes, the MNT Reform and Pocket Reform both have trackballs[1]. They're very different products from the StarFighter laptop though, in that they sacrifice a lot of potential processing power in exchange for a platform which is much more amenable to customization.
I must also mention that I'm happy to see the UHK has a ball-retention ring; this used to be normal for trackballs but companies moved away for it for some reason.
It is still a crazy question though because if you seen most laptops in the last 15 years there is basically no room for them except on the large workstation thinkpads or large gaming laptops.
Sad for the processor, it has a "16-core Intel Ultra 9 285H" which is from what I understand intel 15th gen, while the 16th gen, "Panther Lake", seems to be the one giving battery life around as good as the M1 in the new Dell laptops.
Those are nice looking machines. I don't see any mention of high-end GPUs, though. Do you offer any models that include heavy-duty GPUs for the more usually beefier AI stuff?
There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad. A real Macbook copy would include Macbook misfeatures, like:
- control key in wrong place
- camera notch
- half sized arrow keys
It doesn't look exactly the same. Sure, if it had a tiny touchpad with separate buttons or missing indent so that it's inconvenient to open the lid or didn't have stereo speakers or was really thick then it would look even more different than an MBP... If one company nails some design elements before others, why should everyone who gets those elements too be blamed for copying it.
It doesn't. It looks like a slick laptop, but it is as similar to Macbook Pro as it is to a modern Thinkpad. The hinge in particular stands out and looks like a Thinkpad hinge as opposed to the hidden hinge of a Macbook. Other than that, there is not much design freedom left when the whole industry has kinda agreed that a big trackpad and rounded corners is the way to go.
I had a Starbook for three years. It was constantly plauged with power issues. As long as I had it plugged in via the barrel connector, everything was fine. But if I tried to charge it over USB-C, it would often fail to boot, lock up, require hard power cycling, and still not come back stable. If I left it completely shut down for a week, the battery would be dead and I couldn't get it back until it had charged (with the barrel connector charger, it would not charge from dead in USB-C) for at least 10 minutes.
Everything else about the computer I loved, but the power issue often meant it was not available when I wanted it. I eventually sold it on eBay (with full disclosure of the issues).
Looks like they're UK based. I don't know, but apparently tariffs etc are factored into the shipping fees shown on their site.
If you're not sure if you want to go Linux yet, it's probably best to try a live USB stick of a few distros on your existing hardware. Get a feel for what the interface is like, how things work, how it works on your hardware, etc, without actually changing anything. Seems like a better bet to me than buying all-new hardware.
As the other commenter said, evaluate a live usb with any distribution with KDE Plasma Desktop, for example Fedora, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or Endeavour OS (Arch Linux based). You can also try something like Fedora Kinoite or Bazzite, so called immutable distributions which make it really easy to use for non-technical people.
A long time ago. But I ran into all sorts of issues. It was a struggle getting things like Bluetooth or WiFi working. And I just couldn’t get myself to feeling like I could ‘trust it’. Like that I wouldn’t break it and somehow lose all my data in th process.
Tried and failed to beat Framework to market. Frankly I'm hopeful that Framework beats this offering out, though I'm happy for the competitive pressure.
Starlabs is older than framework and their machines are *at least" as repairable. I have been using a really good one for 4 years or so. And their firmware is open source.
That was a Panther Lake based laptop. Lunar Lake laptops can also last well over 12 hours, even in Linux. This StarFighter offers neither Lunar Lake nor Panther Lake, so 18 hours is probably only under really ideal circumstances.
I reliably get 6 hours out of my Framework 13 with the Ryzen 5 340. And that's with multiple IDE's, 20 browser tabs, full screen brightness. I'm running the latest Fedora without any power saving tweaks.. just stock.
It's not MacBook good but it's much better than 3hrs :)
I have no experience with cachyOS, so can't comment there, but I don't see the point in offering pre-installed Arch. I'd say most Arch users are fairly picky and opinionated about their setup, and would choose to reinstall anyway.
1. "AI" is a marketing term used by the likes of OpenAI/Anthropic/Google. LocalLLaMa communities prefer to use "LLM" or "model". So for a lot of people "AI" is just a service (see 4.)
2. "AI capability" is an irrelevant spec and marketing slug. The hardware specs will give you the needed infomation to consider a model[0][1].
3. If you'll want to run a model locally, you'd know that a midrange notebook isn't the device to look for. Instead, look at workstations with discrete graphic cards + lots of VRAM (24GB+), Strix Halo APUs or a MacBook with lots of RAM, or some dedicated workstations like the NVIDIA DGX Spark[2].
4. An inference engine can run anywhere, you can pick any LLM hosting service. LLM clients just expect an API endpoint anyway.
I never used it. Well, I lie, I did use it back in the day for playing some DOS games where you had to share your keyboard with your friend...
But all my keyboards have been TKL over the past 15+ years and I don't miss it. I don't know why anyone needs to use a numpad unless they're in a job where they work a lot with numbers. And if you're not in such a role, what is your hobby exactly that demands so much number punching?
I bought a bluetooth 10-key. I use the home/end keys religiously when editing in an NLE, and it drove me crazy trying to be a road warrior without it. After having the external, I prefer it as it is full size instead of trying to squeeze it into the laptop frame size. So not having the numpad on the laptop is a-okay for me
I never use my numpad. I use the numbers in the top row of the keyboard.
I'd be super happy to yank my numpad out of my laptop, move the keyboard a little bit to the right and center align it with the center of the screen. My head would be centered with the middle of the screen too.
Unfortunately I had to settle with that keyboard because every other laptop was a worse tradeoff.
Numpad makes notebooks unnecessarily wide (I don't like widescreen, 4:3 was the best aspect ratio), but classical Thinkpad arrows and home key block layout is what I really miss (and Trackpoint with proper drivers and cursor kinematics as it were in linux circa 2005)
I only use a number pad for playing a few games, and for bulk data entry. Neither of those use cases are something I prefer using my laptop for, and even on my desktops they're rare enough that I'd much rather have the number pad separate and largely out of the way.
What do you use a number pad for often enough to not only see it as mandatory for you, but to leave you unable to imagine how anyone could live without it?
Absolutely hate numberpads on laptops - if you're sitting with the laptop directly in front of you it means your arms and hands are slightly offset to the left for normal typing.
Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years. Put this in a room with a few other laptops and it'd be hard to pick it out from the crowd. The only thing it has going for it are the raw specs, but it's eventually marred by the price for what is a poor typing and trackpad experience.
