54 points by greatgib 6 hours ago | 9 comments
salamo 1 hour ago
Possible reasons:

- They might be dynamically adjusting these at inference time [1]. For example, start with a low temperature and generate samples with increasingly high temperatures until one of them passes some quality gate.

- They don't want you to fine-tune on high temperature completions (rejection fine-tuning). You could call this "rejection fine-tuning rejection".

[1] https://rlhfbook.com/c/09-rejection-sampling#related-best-of...

aesthesia 4 hours ago
My guess is that RL training being done with particular generation parameters makes models much more brittle to changes in these parameters, and that's why we're seeing changes like this across model providers. But I don't really know.
pixelmelt 4 hours ago
I'm inclined to agree given how unstable Gemma 4 is when not using the "official" sampler settings
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
kouteiheika 3 hours ago
Obligatory "The Conspiracy Against High Temperature Sampling":

https://gist.github.com/Hellisotherpeople/71ba712f9f899adcb0...

NooneAtAll3 2 hours ago
where can one learn what top_k and top_p mean?
krapht 2 hours ago
ironically, any frontier LLM will easily generate a tutorial at any detail you like explaining what these are.

if don't have time for that, just know that these are technical parameters that affect how likely it is an llm will produce the same result after being asked the same question.

imperio59 1 hour ago
cratermoon 2 hours ago
tolugenius 4 hours ago
> To improve determinism, define a system instruction with explicit rules for your specific use case.

Is this guaranteed to work any better than top_k or top_p? This just sounds like making a smaller version of a Agent.md doc.

janalsncm 2 hours ago
It is guaranteed to work worse than top_k=1, that’s for sure.
furyofantares 1 hour ago
Depends on what you mean by determinism.
sara_mo 2 hours ago
[flagged]
tough 4 hours ago
fwiw sonnet-5 also drops temperature (sonne-4 had it)
gdiamos 1 hour ago
thank god, these parameters are so confusing
impulser_ 4 hours ago
Good. These have been basically useless for the past few generations of models, and most of the time made the model perform worst.
charcircuit 1 hour ago
Along with everything else. These parameters can make speculative decoding less accurate increasing the inference cost.
greatgib 6 hours ago
1. Sampling parameter deprecation (temperature, top_p, top_k)

temperature, top_p, and top_k are deprecated and ignored. In future model generations, supplying these parameters returns an HTTP 400 error. Remove these parameters from all requests.